jasperry 28 minutes ago

Holes might not really exist, but hollers definitely do, because that's where my papaw lived.

eesmith 17 minutes ago

The essay appears to mix two different meanings of "hole".

Holes are a topological property of the slice of cheese. It's not scale invariant, as we're talking about holes on a human visible scale, not microscopic holes. The actual number is not fixed and may depend on the person doing the measuring.

I therefore don't see the need for "perforated", much less shape-predicates like "singly-perforated", "doubly-perforated" and "triply-perforated."

> For ‘hole’ read ‘bottle;’ for ‘hole-lining’ also read ‘bottle.’

Topologically speaking, a bottle doesn't have a hole, so this uses a different definition.

  • jasperry 11 minutes ago

    I think your definition still leaves the essence of the discussion in the same place: do topological properties "exist"? That's how I tend to blanket-interpret this debate; it's whether one is wiling to define existence to include things that aren't material.

CamperBob2 3 hours ago

This is a debate between grammarians, not logicians. Just because "hole" and "object" are both nouns doesn't mean they belong to the same logical category.

  • Joker_vD 3 hours ago

    Eh. Grammar, logic, it's all just trivium stuff, unrelated to the sciences proper.